Curse

projectmercy · May 22, 2012, 09:57 PM // 21:57

So, I've only been playing for a few months. I've recently finished all the campaigns on normal mode. I've done a few Vanquishes and HM missions based on Zaishen things I felt interested in, but nothing major.

So I decided to step my game up and adjust my builds. I'd been primarily running a barrage build with a Rt hero keeping shatter weapon on me. It works OK in some instances, but not great in others.

So reading some of the treads in here (including the Turret thread). I decided to test a few of the builds I'd used against the master. For doing the solo missions in EoTN I'd just used an SoS build (with a pet) as my solo build. So all the builds I can come up with can't seem to get past about 50-60 dps averaging on the master, except for the SoS build where it averages around 95, but regularly cranking at 120 when painful bond is up.

So, I guess I feel like I'm missing something. I'm a ranger, but the best build I can come up with doesn't seem to use any ranger skills, outside of maybe a pet. It seems I'd be better off ditching my bow for a channeling staff. So, what am I missing here?

Thank you,

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Khaal · May 22, 2012, 10:52 PM // 22:52

I love my rit, but SoS is just OP. Rangers have certain advantages though when it comes to survivability and things like that.

So to answer your question, no SoS is gonna probably put out more damage than any straight ranger build.

Now that doesn't mean it's the only build to run. I usually run incendiary arrows with conjure flame and ignite arrows personally.

Kunder · May 22, 2012, 11:02 PM // 23:02

R/Rt SoS? Yeah, easy to beat SoS with a ranger build. Though SoS only hits 25.5 DPS on its own at r12. Painful bond can double that. What magical hax do you have that lets you hit 120 DPS? Or are you including SW in your damage?

Solo is definitely best with SoS though thanks to the fact that spirits can tank for you.

WarcryOfTruth · May 22, 2012, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Pretty much any ranger build can out damage an SoS build. Especially now. SoS has received far too many nerfs to be useful for damage anymore. At 12 Channeling each spirit does 17 damage and Painful does 18. While this seems like a lot (17x3) + (18x3) = 105 damage every 1.5 seconds, along with any other spirits you will have, this is moderately impressive if and ONLY if the spirits hit all the same target. Spirits now, generally should be used for body blocks, utilizing Armor of Unfeeling (which, of course belongs on any spirit spamming bar), and Spawning Power should ALWAYS be used with spirits (which, as a Ranger, you wouldn't have).

So, yeah, I don't know what Khaal is using for ranger builds, but I would stick with a bow.

Kunder · May 22, 2012, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Spirits actually only attack once every 2 seconds. Quite pathetic if you are looking for damage and can't get them to spike a single target.

The other main usage for spirits is for Energy from Spirit Siphon. SoS is a great energy generator for Splinter Weapon/Restoration/Smite spam. Not something a ranger should really be troubling themselves with.

WarcryOfTruth · May 22, 2012, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

Spirits actually only attack once every 2 seconds. Quite pathetic if you are looking for damage and can't get them to spike a single target.

Ahhhh yes, my bad. This strengthens my point, at the expense of making me look dumb for being wrong

projectmercy · May 23, 2012, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarcryOfTruth

Pretty much any ranger build can out damage an SoS build. Especially now.

Would you mind linking some builds? I went to PvX, but most of the ranger builds seem very specialized. I realize it's handy to bring different builds depending on the encounter, but these are really specialized (or not very effective). Or they're hammer or assassin builds. I've been trying to avoid melee. Some of the jargon I haven't really figured out yet. The ones on the GW wiki I've looked up (like bunny thumper), but people seem to use a lot of acronyms for skills, which take me a while to figure out.

If I'm soloing, I'm generally rolling heros similar to this (baring mission constraints):

http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:Team_-_7_Hero_Player_Support

It's a 3 Mez midline, with an support Ritualist (ST rit I think is the name) and necro healer and minion bomber prot. I went through all the hero templates I could find, and there seemed to be some commonality to something similar to this.

Kunder · May 23, 2012, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarcryOfTruth

Ahhhh yes, my bad. This strengthens my point, at the expense of making me look dumb for being wrong

Pretend you were thinking of some uber SoS + SoGM build. It was possible for a good 24 hours when Simple thievery was bugged

Quote:

Originally Posted by projectmercy

Would you mind linking some builds? I went to PvX, but most of the ranger builds seem very specialized. I realize it's handy to bring different builds depending on the encounter, but these are really specialized (or not very effective). Or they're hammer or assassin builds. I've been trying to avoid melee. Some of the jargon I haven't really figured out yet. The ones on the GW wiki I've looked up (like bunny thumper), but people seem to use a lot of acronyms for skills, which take me a while to figure out.

Basically you want EBSoH + Splinter Weapon (from hero with 15+ Channeling of course) + anything that makes you shoot arrows fast. This means that your attack skill options generally boil down to Barrage (+potentially Volley if using IAS) for the AoE, or Triple Shot + Double Shot + Ignite Arrows for the spike. In both cases you want to try and fit in some form of IAS, and in both cases your main choice for a secondary is between /E for Conjure or /W for SY.

There's not much variation beyond that for bows. Sadly 95% of ranger attacks just aren't worth it because wayyyy too many of the skills are 10e skills which aren't nearly worth the energy sacrifice. Rangers also get shafted because maintainable IAS is really hard to come by, especially the juicy +33%. Rituals/Traps might as well not exist.

You can also try to fit a pet in but its really icky and even the power of Enraged Lunge isn't worth the pain inherent to pet micro.

projectmercy · May 23, 2012, 12:53 AM // 00:53

Cool, I'll check that out. I haven't used Triple Shot yet, becuase my factional standing is still pretty poor. I plan on grinding that out soon so I can try the Turret builds listed in that thread.

Thank you for the descriptive reply!

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Kunder · May 23, 2012, 12:55 AM // 00:55

With the PvE title update you shouldn't have many problems getting triple shot fairly high (also boosts SY if you choose to use that). Keep in mind that the -%damage doesn't affect the armor ignoring +damage from buffs, and even at minimum rank it's always going to do more damage than Double Shot.

Voodoo Rage · May 23, 2012, 02:14 AM // 02:14

With a complementary hero team (16 spec'd Splinter Wep, Strength of Honor, etc...), a dagger chain ranger is pretty nice too. A pet alongside you will give you 25% IAS with the Sunspear Skill and even with a low beast mastery rank will gave you a nice energy well with Scavenger Strike.

Relyk · May 23, 2012, 03:31 AM // 03:31

except for IA ranger, bows are terrible. use daggers or a scythe or defensefag it with spirits.

Gabs88 · May 23, 2012, 04:15 AM // 04:15

R/A Dagger spammer beats R/Rt any day period.

Vas · May 23, 2012, 04:31 AM // 04:31

Try some trapping builds if you want a bit of fun, they're useful for mass disruption and they can even kill things if done right.

Try something like: R/A

Trappers Focus {E}
Trappers speed
Dust trap
Flame trap
Barbed trap
Deaths charge
Whirling defense
technobabble (optional)

It's heaps of fun and can shut down large groups, just use trappers speed and focus, shadow step in and lay down your traps. Dust traps first of course. If the mob is mainly casters, use technobabble before stepping in or get a hero to micro Protective spirit on you.
Just keep in the middle of the group and spam your traps when they refresh, you heros will help clean up.
Lots of fun!

Skyy High · May 23, 2012, 02:19 PM // 14:19

Just checked my single-target damage bow build on the MoD, it does ~70 DPS, solo (ie, without hero buffing). If I have to reapply my preparations (ie, if a single group takes longer than 20 seconds to kill, which rarely happens in general PvE), it drops to about 50. I'd take that over SoS's damage any day; the main advantage of SoS really is the body blocking and aggro control you get with the extra disposable spirits.

So, for those solo missions, SoS is probably a good choice, because free AI companions is nice for keeping the pressure off of you. For general team-based PvE? Not a chance, stick to something else, even for single-target damage. If you want AoE damage, there's very little that can beat splinter barrage, particularly if you micro a rit hero.

And of course, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that I went through most of HM before GW:EN's release (and hence those crazy powerful PvE skills) with 3 heroes and a BHA / savage / disrupting / RtW bar. Damage isn't always the most important thing you can bring to the table as a ranger.

DreamRunner · May 24, 2012, 01:00 PM // 13:00

SoS Rits was never about pure damage. SoS gives support for your groups in damage and body blocking against melee attackers. If you want damage, it is splinter weapon and ancestors rage.

But, it all comes down to any character being a damage dealing, it is just based on your playstyle.

Voodoo Rage · May 24, 2012, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Also don't forget that depending on the area you are playing, it's really not that critical they you are running the worlds most "optimal" ranger build. With seven heroes, you can more or less do what you want and play the style of game that is fun for you. Personally I like playing with a bow and being able to kite and damage from a distance. That is fun to me. Getting in the face of an enemy and hacking away with dagger, while ultimately more damaging just isn't that fun to me.